In this episode of The Ganjapreneur Podcast, Damien Cornwell — President of the Cannabis Association of New York and owner of Just Breathe dispensary in Binghamton — joins host TG Branfalt for an unfiltered conversation about what it really takes to survive and lead in New York’s chaotic cannabis landscape. Drawing from his background in logistics, media, and community activism, Damien offers a candid perspective on the state’s troubled rollout, liquidity crunch, and lack of banking access — and why systemic change still feels within reach, despite the obstacles.

Cornwell also reflects on what makes the cannabis space so personal: from his work supporting addiction recovery and affordable childcare to his role as a voice for equity and reason in a deeply fractured market. With wit, humility, and a deep sense of responsibility, he makes the case for solidarity, smarter policy, and not forgetting why many joined the industry in the first place.

Listen to the episode below or wherever you get your podcasts, or scroll down for the full transcript!

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TG Branfalt:

Hey there, I’m your host, TG Branfalt, and this is the Ganjapreneur.com podcast where we try to bring you actionable information and normalize cannabis through the stories of ganjapreneurs, activists and industry stakeholders. Today I am joined by Damien Cornwell. He’s the president of the Cannabis Association of New York, the state’s only cannabis association representing every part of the supply chain, and he’s the owner of Just Breathe dispensary based in Binghamton. Hey Damien, how are you doing today?

Damien Cornwell:

I’m doing great. I’m pleased to be here and thank you for this opportunity.

TG Branfalt:

Yeah, we have a lot to discuss. We are both based in New York, so we’ve both experienced this market probably prior to it going legal, but before we get into that man, tell me about yourself, your background and how you ended up in the cannabis space.

Damien Cornwell:

Gosh, so when I first started, my business came from United Parcel Service. I actually was a driver and I ended up going into management running a bunch of buildings for them. And so I learned a lot about logistics. At the same time, I also owned a radio station at a recording studio, and I had spent a lot of time with the Urban League doing a lot of philanthropic work, helping out people in my community. So when the idea of hemp came up, I became a hemp retailer and I partnered with the Urban League and advertised that store opening. And at the time we were doing a workforce development program trying to get people’s records expunged. This is wild, this is this. So we advertised the opening of the store and at the same time we had a grant from a Cuomo administration that was going to pay for attorney’s fees to get people’s records expunged. So we put it out all together. We got like 27 people that showed up, got the money, got the records cleaned up,

Damien Cornwell:

And

Damien Cornwell:

It was at that point that I knew that cannabis or the idea of cannabis at the time was just hemp, but just the idea was such a common denominator I thought, what could you get done if you’re trying to make your community better than how you found it? Right. We ended up those folks jobs, getting their records and got ’em cooking. I mean, that’s a big deal and sometimes it can be really hard to reach out into different levels of society and then make people trust you that you really just want to help out.

TG Branfalt:

For sure.

Damien Cornwell:

And so then when the licenses became available, I partnered with the Urban League, and so a lot of what we do out of GRI is philanthropic in nature. And then of course one thing led to another, I was asked to jump on the board for can, and then as time went on, I ended up ascending to this role of president for can and I still continued to do the same stuff.

TG Branfalt:

So in your estimation, somebody who’s sort of looking at this from a social justice perspective, a lot of New York’s law was based on that social equity provisions. Do you think that that has been a success since the market’s launch?

Damien Cornwell:

It’s kind of a hot ball of wax. I mean, something’s always better than nothing. I think what’s awful is that because of the rollout and some of the things that have happened, even though there were some positive things at the same time, it’s caused an even amount of dissension and it’s pitted people against each other and that’s never good. And so what’s happening is, look, if you just looked at the numbers, New York was the first market to ever have this progressive outlay to actually start with social equity first. But at the same time, the market was injuncted a hundred times and then it splintered. You’d have folks that were equity against people that were not equity and then define equity. I mean, what is equity? It really came down to who was first to be in line. So we ended up kind of boiling down that definition of equity, and so who gets the first chance to get a license and then that in fact made the world explode. It’s unfortunate. It’s like the tenets of what we were trying to do, not, I don’t work in the government, but I think the tenets of what they were trying to do unfortunately were kind of just turned all around and shaken about a million different ways. And unfortunately we have what we have now, which is a market that’s running, but probably at 40% of what it should be.

TG Branfalt:

And how are you as president of the association, the Cannabis Association of New York? How are you sort of dealing with this bit of splintering?

Damien Cornwell:

It’s hardwick it

Damien Cornwell:

Hard. So what we’re trying to do, what I’ve talked about sometimes to my detriment, I’m not always loved and liked by everybody for some of my ideals, but in my mind I think that it’s not what we have, it’s what we can grow. I mean, that’s a classic outlook from unregulated days. It’s not what we got, it’s what we can make. And so the idea is every time we splinter, every time someone attacks else in this house, meaning inside cannabis, we go slower. So my thought when I came into can, which was not always met with open arms, was that we should be more of a chamber of commerce and we should try to look at things from a thousand feet above and see what you can do to position each facet of the market so that the whole overall market as a whole can grow bigger and quicker. Now, that can sometimes be rejected because who the hell am I to tell you what’s best for the market when you have your specific interest? I mean, I understand that, but if you don’t take a crack at least trying to look at the world that way, tell me what do you have? You just continued doing the same thing we were already doing, which wasn’t working at the time. I mean, this place got held up for what, almost a solid year.

That’s crazy. And then how many people lost money? Forget about me. How many people lost money just thinking they were going to get on? They thought they had a golden ticket and then all their savings just went up in smoke. And then not only did they do time in the box, a couple years in the box, go through all this stuff, you think you got this chance you’re going to get out and then now you can’t get out. And then the funds dried up and the market was injuncted, and then you was selling pennies on a dollar. I mean, you were almost worse off than you were before you even thought you were. Were going to have the chance to run a store or become a cultivator. It just was really a terrible situation. So in my mind, we had to change our approach. And candy it’s worth mentioning, was amazing and instrumental in changing from getting the conversation from hemp to go to cannabis.

Absolutely amazing. But Candy inherently is really more of a supply side organization because that’s where it starts. It all starts with the growers. If you’re not growing it, you’ve got nothing to talk about. So we can’t lose sight of that. But today there’s as many retailers in candy as there are growers. Actually they two to one. So that’s only because more likely they’re going to be awarded. So in my personal opinion, I think New York eventually will become probably more of a retail market. So it’s important that we put in protections for our growers. It’s super, super important, but at the same time, we have to be cognizant that there’s a large tidal wave of retail stores that are going to need help, and we don’t want them to fall to fail either. That would just give way for more corporate cannabis to take over. So

TG Branfalt:

You had said that there’s about 40% right now. So you think that there’s another sort of market of 60% of licenses that still haven’t been issued?

Damien Cornwell:

Well, I could tell you this much. I think now I’m going to say approximately, I thought there had been something like 1500 to 1700 that were actually kind of awarded, but there’s a little over 300 that are running. And then when we talk about potentiality, the state recently celebrated its first billion dollars, but we know in the unregulated market and regulated market combined, there’s $8 billion. So when we talk about, I often use this, I often say this this way, selling cannabis is running water downhill except we’re running it down a creek when it should be Niagara Falls. And I’m not disparaging an unregulated market, but I am saying that the regulated market could do much better if some of the policies and the ways we went forward where were cleaned up a little bit and weren’t so divisive or incentivizing some of our things we have in the world de-incentivize growth, advertising, billboards in the beginning, track and traces, keeping products from being inverted from out of state that’s killing our farmers. That’s crazy. I mean, that’s just common sense.

TG Branfalt:

And how much according to your members has advertising since it’s not permitted? How much of a role is that playing in their lack of growth perhaps? What are you hearing from your members?

Damien Cornwell:

Probably the number two or number one thing in the world. Think about that. When they first came out, we couldn’t even put up the picture. We still can, can’t put up a picture of a cannabis leaf, but you sell cannabis. Now let’s unravel that. If I sold cars or I worked on cars like Monroe Muffler, you can go down the parkway looking at Monroe and you see pictures of mufflers on the building, but you can’t see a picture of a cannabis leaf on a regulated store. And then a store that’s unregulated has got neon lights and looks like a circus. Like a circus ride, right? Yeah,

TG Branfalt:

Circus. Well, I mean to your point, even before cannabis retail, cannabis illicit retail cannabis, I managed head shops and we had flags that had the lease all over the building,

Damien Cornwell:

Right?

TG Branfalt:

And it was illegal to say bong, right? It was illegal to say bong. So you had mentioned the state policies that are sort of holding the market back. What are the current policy priorities for canny coming up this year?

Damien Cornwell:

So two things. Can we just go back on the advertising thing?

TG Branfalt:

Yeah, of course.

Damien Cornwell:

I do want to say something about the state. The state will always try to legislate to the lowest common denominator of risk. So I don’t want to hate, I mean I understand where it comes from, but at the same time, man to man, you still want to be able to walk and chew gum at the same time.

I mean, you don’t want to do something that’s just, you don’t want to be so monolithic in how you’re seeing the world that you forgot. We are retail stores, right? These are engines to make money so that the tax dollars can come back into our communities. I’m sorry, pardon me. And then help support budgetary gaps in local economies, local municipalities pay for stuff for schools, fix the roads, all these kinds of things. They’re unrestricted funds. So that’s the issue for that. Now, for canny, man, I’ll tell you what, one of the things we really were working on very hard is

Damien Cornwell:

There’s a liquidity problem in the state. So here’s what’s happened. A lot of farmers

Damien Cornwell:

Shoulder the creation of this market by billing this stuff, and then stores weren’t ready to open, so they were already underwater. And so consequently, they funded all the inventory essentially that went into the stores. So when those guys don’t get paid on time, they have a huge issue in making their bills. At the same time, retail stores get the stuff, but if they need to get the money out in 30 days, but the sell through rates aren’t always in 30 days, especially on a new problem. And then the other problem, so that’s another problem for the retail store. So essentially what’s happening is if you don’t sell through, then now you have a liquidity problem because you’ve got to cover the cost of the first 30 when maybe you only went through 20 days of it. So now you’ve got to hold that balance. And then the other issue is that

Damien Cornwell:

There’s no place to go. Well,

Damien Cornwell:

To a very, very recently, there’s been absolutely no place to go for cannabis lending as there would be for any other business in the world, and you can’t even get the terms. So what we’re after is trying to create not just the revolving door, but maybe a combination of tools, which we’re calling a cannabis revitalization fund where you could have some stimulus loans, which could be forgivable for cultivation side people. Lemme tell you why it’s got to be forgivable because they can’t make a loan payment like a retail store can. The guy’s got to wait on his harvest, can’t make a month to month loan payment. But you can incentivize and say, Hey listen, I want you to make this many full-time employees. I want you to hit these benchmarks. And if you can do those things maybe in pieces, then that could be forgiven If you in fact did contribute to the statewide economy, that’s fair.

Then at the same time with the tax money you’re making off the cannabis, maybe that could be the backstop to supporting a revolving loan fund of a larger magnitude for processors and retailers, which stores absolutely could make a payment because they’re volatile, right? They’re moving product in and out, in and out, and they only really need to finance if they have a need to finance at all the inventory that they didn’t sell. So that’s a number one priority. Now we’ve been really hard with Leaf Link and some other banks are now starting to open up the door for cannabis blending. But even then, man devil’s in the details. I was looking at entertaining the thought of buying a building that the store is in. And because it’s cannabis, do you realize the bank will only allow me to borrow 65% the value of the asset, which is absolutely insane, but if I sold ham and cheese subs, no problem brother, but we make more money than the ham and cheese guy, so why is it harder for us?

That’s insanity. Here’s another thing, do you realize when we get the money picked up, it’s 500 to a thousand dollars per pickup. We had to pay that much money to get them to come pick it up. But if I was, when I owned a bar, if Bris was around the corner and had to come pick it up, it’s 50 bucks a month, but for us, 500 to a thousand dollars a month to get it picked up to run it back through the Fed and then back into the bank again. So there’s so many inequities and a lot of what we’re doing, all these things make it so that our margins are very thin and it’s very difficult to

Damien Cornwell:

Operate, especially if you want to obey the law.

Damien Cornwell:

So that’s the issue. And so it becomes, if you don’t obey the law, then it’s a game of risk tolerance and how good are your attorneys and how quickly can the O cm enforce the things that are wrong? And right now the OCM is underwater, they just have so much to do, right? Sometimes I feel like bad for ’em sometimes. I’m not saying that not people are going to think that I’m a scum, right? I’m not saying it like all I’m just saying is that there’s a lot to do. It’s like running the dog by the tail. I mean nobody comes to work to do it wrong, man, those people put in a lot of time they got family. I mean, it’s not personal. I’m just saying guys comes to work, I’m pissed off, my desk is full. I can’t even imagine what some of their desks look like. I know they sign up for, but I’m just saying man to man, it’s a tough set in the gym, brother. You know what I mean?

TG Branfalt:

So have you or your organization spoken with some of the original bill sponsors, be it people Stokes or any other lawmakers on potentially getting this sort of small business relief or this fund into laws have been any consideration about that?

Damien Cornwell:

A hundred percent. So the fellows from ecmo, which is another organization, and I think they partnered, I’m assuming with CFA, really did push hard to get a $5 million budget item in the house budget that would I think serve some of the cultivators. We want to do something a little bit bigger, but again, you eat an elephant one bite at a time. So I think that’s still a positive thing. Of course we did. We were up in Albany just two weeks ago going back and forth and I think if, I’ll be honest with you, I think our proposal was just a little late, but it’s not a little late because it’s right. So in my opinion, I would rather have something right and roll it out even in another year because $5 million won’t solve the problems of the market, not even close, and it doesn’t address everybody.

That’s a stop gap and God bless everybody that worked in that, but if you really want to fix this thing, you keep your eye on the prize and all sickness is not death and the wheels of change turn slow, right? So it’s like that’s all right. It’s all right. I’ll be here tomorrow. Right? We’ll just giddy up and we’ll get after it, brother. I mean that’s what it’s all about. You got to work to improve every single day no matter what you do. So we have had these conversations, I think was just an issue of some politics and timing and don’t forget, even in the state of the state, the governor didn’t mention cannabis, so there’s a lot of, the appetite for cannabis right now is not as high as maybe we would like. When you compare it to all the other things that they’re happening in the state, whether they be the immigration issues or other tax issues or people concerned about whether or not they’re going to get federal funding, I was hearing all kinds of stuff. I was hearing that maybe the state might even have a reduction in federal funding up to 30 or 40%.

So then if I said, Hey, can you help these farmers and we want to get 15 million at the door for fund, they’re like, are you crazy? I’m like, no, I’m not crazy because I think this 15 million will make you 30, and that’s an answer. I don’t want you to fish. For me, we’re trying to teach ’em how to fish and then we’ll have all the fish we need. It’s an investment. It’s not a giveaway, but sometimes it’s hard to push that narrative.

TG Branfalt:

I mean, I can see why you were chosen to lead the organization. You definitely

Damien Cornwell:

Really, because I don’t know what to think. Hell, I was thinking about,

TG Branfalt:

Well, I could see what other people, I could see what other people, what if I

Damien Cornwell:

Lost my F in mind? Holy cow, I should be hanging out with my father goofing around working on the bikes downstairs, man. Oh man.

TG Branfalt:

But you come from a logistics background, right? With UPS and which I mean logistics uses a lot of data points in order to become more efficient. Is this something that you are working towards as president of CNY is getting members to rely a bit more on data to expand the industry or products in the industry?

Damien Cornwell:

1000000%. That’s everything that I always talk about, Tim. I really believe in that. I like you cannot make decisions. You got to think before you speak and think before you act, man. And sometimes I’m telling you, I’ve said that stuff before and man, people have absolutely flipped out who to F for you? You know what? You just want to slow it down. Sometimes you may have to go a little slower to go faster. Sometimes just jumping off the ledge isn’t always the best thing. Maybe you should have repacked that parachute brother. I’m not getting crazy. I’m just saying common sense Shit.

Damien Cornwell:

If you went out and licensed a thousand people, you only have 20 licensing clerks.

Damien Cornwell:

Okay, yeah. So

Damien Cornwell:

Now I give you a ticket and I tell you, congratulations brother. You’re good to go. So you grab a lease and you sent 70 grand in your lease, but you’re still sitting around waiting a year later and you can’t open. So where did that money come from? Now you’re selling off your license equity, equity in your license, you spent time in the F and box, you spent five years, you got this license, you’re running out of money, and now you’ve got to give up the equity in it just to keep the dream alive. That’s crazy. Want to be better idea to just tell me, look, it’s not going to happen for six months or give you a placeholder. What’s wrong with that? Why is that a bad idea? I didn’t tell anybody. Go slower. I’m just saying don’t let people fall on hard times for nothing. Just be upfront, let ’em know what’s going on. That’s just common sense to you.

TG Branfalt:

You’ve brought up a couple of issues, one being real, I mean, several issues. Real estate, banking, the cultivation side, which do I want to put this, which is kind of the most pressing issue for cannabis operators right now. Is it that real estate issue? Is it the banking issue or is it the sort of the cultivation issue? I mean in your estimation?

Damien Cornwell:

In my opinion, I think it’s liquidity and then cultivation because it’s number one, you have to have money to make money. Full stop if you’re acting, let’s just peel that back one second. So if I’m running a store and I want to pay on time, then let’s say I set times and we’re going to reload every 22 days. The problem with that is what happens when you sell out and now somebody comes to the door and you don’t have it in that one week? Well, that person probably would’ve had a hundred or $150 bucket maybe, but now they don’t come in. You don’t have it on that day and you don’t only lose that item, but you lose whatever else they would’ve got that day in the store. So now the next month you order even less because you don’t have enough. You should have a full inventory on the shelf all the time, but you don’t want to carry it if the baby’s on powder milk and you’re trying to keep the bills paid.

That’s number one. Number two, cultivation is so important because they really by plan the backbone of how this thing started. There’s not a ton of them left as it is, and a lot of these guys could do more than they’re doing if they just had a little more access to funds. You don’t have to give anything away, but you need to give ’em access so they can scale up. We had a farmer, Inca, when the weather hit just these last couple of weeks, this person had paid off a lot of loans, had done pretty well, probably a little over a million bucks, and the weather, the northern part of the state destroyed the greenhouse for a hundred grand. Boom. Well, the time it’s going to take to get that claim and fight with the insurance company, all that bullshit is going to take forever and a day. And when it have been, cool, if you could have just walked out, any other person in America went and grabbed that money from the bank in a week. If I wanted to get a car, I could literally go to the bank and have the thing done in four days. Boom, there it is. End of story. Could put the whole thing to bed and now this person has got to go through it. And where do they get the capital for that?

TG Branfalt:

Did the insurance even, what is the insurance situation in that situation, right? Because it is cannabis and not a lot of companies will even cover those claims. So I’ve been told

Damien Cornwell:

I can’t speak to it in perfect terms, but let me just tell you what some of the issues are. Cannabis is now a crop, yes, but at the same time, a lot of companies for insurance kick back on that. So when I go to get insurance for the store, when I owned a bar, you could finance your insurance. Now I can’t do that because of the banking side of it. So now when I need insurance for the store, you got to pay all the money up front, 100%, 12 grand, boom upfront. You can’t get a quarterly payment. So now what does that do to your margins? And this is what people are missing, right? Guys that can’t operate. Just because you can flip doesn’t necessarily mean you can operate. There’s a difference between logistics and moving weight. There’s a huge difference in this world.

So think about that. Cost to serve. Now my cost to serve is even higher, so I need to have more back per unit per item to cover that shortfall. Or I’m pregnant, I’m now with child. Right now we’re looking to cut hours, we’re looking to do this, we’re looking to do that. There are different levers you pull in this particular game and it’s actually pretty fascinating. It’s kind of cool how you see the world come together. I think that’s promising and kind of exciting, actually. That makes me happy. It’s like building a whole nother world. It’s cool, but at the same time, there’s a lot of real people that can be hurt if they don’t understand what’s happening and how it all comes together.

TG Branfalt:

It seems to me you’re the type of guy that I’m surprised your head didn’t actually explode when you decided to get into this industry. From the stories that I’ve heard, obviously I know people in the industry and they come from slinging. I mean that’s what they did. But a $12,000 upfront payment for insurance on retail is unbelievable.

Damien Cornwell:

Big deal.

TG Branfalt:

I mean, yeah, no, they

Damien Cornwell:

Won’t finance it. They won’t finance it.

TG Branfalt:

It’s a huge deal. I want to switch gears a little bit and talk to you about federal policy a bit over at can. Are you guys talking about the potential federal changes and what that could mean for New York’s industry and operators?

Damien Cornwell:

We talked about it last year and we’re kind of quiet about it right now. Here’s the issue. So obviously everybody wants two 80 to go away. That would be awesome. Unbelievable. The problem is you really need to happen through Congress. And I’ve said this before, but I don’t think Congress can agree on the lunch menu, less known, get this done. Now, why is that a problem? Because there still is this outside argument that if you changed the reclassification and then you put it in with let’s say the guys that make Ketamine, well now that’s governed by the FDA. So then now a bigger, much bigger bigger company could come in and be like, Hey, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Listen, we got no problem with what you did, but why don’t these guys have to meet the same standards that we do? And then that could really destroy a lot of the small New York retailers that wouldn’t be able to afford the cost associate becoming a real pharmacy or something right?

Now. Look, a lot of people say that’s never going to happen. Not in a million years. I mean, okay, but in my mind, the Trump administration would have to create a carve out by executive order. They’d have to do something where DOJ couldn’t physically provide money to then go after and prosecute those stores. And I’m not so sure too for New York how that would work because I’m not so sure how happy the Trump administration is with New York to begin with. So I’ve seen that kind of stuff too, where if they get the feeling away, they won’t support. I mean, if New York at the premise of New York is DE, that’s not a favorite thing for anybody on the Trump administration. I’m just keeping it real. I really don’t give a shit one way or the other on the politics. I’m just telling you the truth.

TG Branfalt:

Well, I mean they could look at the social equity aspects of the program as a DI work giveaway,

Damien Cornwell:

Right? Right. So these are things, all I’m saying is you got to be cognizant of that. You’d have to have a conversation and just kind of clear the air and be like, listen, all you’re looking to do is we want to grow. We’d love to get rid of it, but could you please make a carve out to protect these folks that were already baked in the cake from jump. They need to be grandfathered in. But that seems so simple to me. But that shit will be moving an absolute mountain and it it’ll be impossible just to get a simple conversation like that done. You’re like, you’re kidding me. But that’s what would have to happen. So we’re kind of quiet it right now, Tim. I’m just waiting to see what happens. I think that once it gets teed up, then I think we lean in with all the force we possibly have to make sure that our people are protected. But right now talking about it would kind of be this talking shit. You don’t really know what’s going to happen yet. But I mean, we’re cognizant of what could happen and what we want to look out for.

TG Branfalt:

Yeah, because I’ve also heard, I mean your concerns about moving it to Schedule three would actually prohibit the kind of sales that exist now in a retail market because it would then be a pharmaceutical drug essentially.

Damien Cornwell:

That’s

TG Branfalt:

Right. That’s right. So I want to talk to you about your business a little bit. So what products you’re in Binghamton, which is in the, I mean it’s technically upstate New York,

Damien Cornwell:

Southern tier, Southern tier,

TG Branfalt:

Southern tier. How many dispensaries are currently operating in your region?

Damien Cornwell:

Gosh, so Benington has, right now there’s one medical and then there were four regulated shops, but I think there

Damien Cornwell:

Were another three awarded. So I think there would be seven regulated, one medical in a plethora of unregulated shops that are in and around the way. So I think that per capita, I should this all the time. I think per capita, binghamton’s really, really tight. There’s only 49,000 people in Binghamton and 192,000 people in the county, but there’s probably, there’s 10, nine or 10 regulated stores that are either running or scheduled to run for that population is a lot. And then on top of that, when you throw in a significant amount of folks that are running shops and doing their thing, I mean it’s a pretty tight market, but again, that doesn’t necessarily bother me as much because I still think that there’s always opportunity. And what I found too is that between a regulated and an unregulated shop, I really found that there’s a misnomer on who we thought was going to come to the stores. A lot of my people are like pre-retiree people. I wrestled in college, I got a bad shoulder and sot everybody else apparently because they’re always in there. I got a bad shoulder, man, I got a bad shoulder. You got anything from me? Oh, shoulder heard about that brother.

TG Branfalt:

Well, we’ve heard that a lot that of the people that are accessing retail dispensaries are 50 and up.

Damien Cornwell:

Yeah, yeah, it’s a huge, huge amount of people. Definitely like pre-retiree folks where there’s a wife at home that can’t absolutely stand, her husband can’t sleep at night, so she a sleep gummy that’s so popular. Or those drink mixes my high thing, they put ’em in. Dudes love those. And I heard the other day, somebody came out with, it looks like, I guess like a candy corn and it’s got a chocolate filling in inside and I’m, I’m friends with a couple of teachers. One of the teachers told me they had one and they were smoked. They just loved it. It’s so funny

TG Branfalt:

As an operator, man. So there’s, this is again a sort of personal thing. I don’t run a cannabis retail shop or anything, but I kind of always thought, listen, maybe not shut down these unlicensed retailers. Maybe charge them some fee for being open too long. I mean, maybe it’s my sort of anti state disposition that gives me that opinion. But as somebody who owns a retail shop, what do you think the crackdown or the ramifications of a crackdown should be on these unlicensed shops?

Damien Cornwell:

So look, I think it’s wick and important to say this, knowing including myself, I got 60 cousins on my side, my mother’s side of the family, all, no one wants to reinstitute the war on drugs that is fucking out. And I don’t know if I’m supposed to swear, I’m sorry.

TG Branfalt:

Yeah, you’re fine.

Damien Cornwell:

I don’t even want to hear that anymore. That whole bullshit you can use to set. That’s crazy. That is crazy to stop. That’s just, that’s going backwards. I mean you could work at the store all day and come out smelling like weed. That’s crazy. That’s just crazy talk. So no one wants to reinstitute the war on drugs. What I would say is there has to be a pathway to create some kind of equity. It is not right. If you could flip 300 grand in a month and I put 300 grand in a month and then I give away X amount of dollars, 30% of it, whatever, back to the mayor, the county and the state, and then my brother over here doesn’t have to give anything to anybody. I pay for all those book bags and the school lunch program and you’re not doing anything.

Damien Cornwell:

I

Damien Cornwell:

Mean you got to help out. You what? I mean I don’t ever want to discourage your man’s hospital. I can’t say that enough. I don’t give a damn about that. You got to do what you got to do. I understand that. Nor do I think there’s ever going to be a time when we don’t have a unregulated or gray market, whatever

Damien Cornwell:

For sure.

Damien Cornwell:

I mean, God bless them because if they didn’t do that shit so well, there would be no legal store today. So I’m cognizant of that, but there has to be some kind of equity. You got to figure it out. Now what you’re saying sounds like a really good idea. The problem is the politics of it, right?

Damien Cornwell:

Yeah,

Damien Cornwell:

Man. And that’s the problem. It’s like how could you legislate that? How could you figure that out? I’ve been asked about this stuff even at my local level. I had a meeting with the city council and I gave them background information of how it comes together and why it’s so tough with legal shops and explaining how the margins and things work and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And they have to figure out their own path forward. I mean, that’s their job. You’re elected to do that stuff and you have to still make it a welcoming place for people no matter what they do or how they do it. However, you got to find a solution that has two shakes of accountability and three shakes of integrity. Otherwise we got nothing. You’re going to get violence, you’re going to get dissension the minute it’s 51 49 for me, you’re looking at your quarter eye back at me.

If it’s not equal, it’s a problem. So that’s what I would think. I’m not sure what the solution is. I don’t know what I would do if I was king to the day. I think the answer would’ve been to have made to put to bed the enforcement thing before the rollout occurred again. That’s what I mean. You got to think before you go. I think that at the time politically, there’s this quick rush to get it out and then everything wasn’t thought through because maybe had that been put to bed, maybe some of those guys would’ve applied and they would all be running. We all be walking down the block side by side like some Selma shit. But it’s that it’s all fragmented again. What do you do?

TG Branfalt:

Yeah, I mean you’ve been so sort of upfront with me, I don’t want to sort of cross any lines here, but do you, as an operator, as a levelheaded person, what do you make of the argument by the state regulators that we need to shut down sort of the illicit market because of testing? I mean, listen, I’ve been smoking weed every day since I was 16 years old. Maybe I smoked a little mold, but it never made me sick. It was never tested, anything like that. Do you find that that’s just sort of a red herring for we’re not getting the sort of tax dollars or is there a legitimate gripe to be had over untested cannabis products?

Damien Cornwell:

I think the bigger gripe is the fact that on some of the unregulated shops you can find there might be some mushrooms in there. There might be some different things here and there. That’s the real talk. You can also find a lot of guys late at night when you call it DoorDash. If you order the right thing, you get a couple things back in your order that’s beyond your beat pad. You know what I’m saying?

TG Branfalt:

I don’t, because I live in such a rural place, there’s no such thing as DoorDash. But I understand.

Damien Cornwell:

Okay. Yeah. And then I also know this from talking to some of the guys in schools now, hold on, don’t everybody freak out when you hear this. I’m going to go back on the other side to kind of smooth it out for everybody, but sometimes it’s pretty easy if you got stuff at a gas station or something out in a rural area where it’s a little easier for that stuff to make its way into junior highs. And because there’s watching it like that, so you could find it. And then other times people in the schools will complain. The resource officer will catch ’em with gummies and weed and different things like in the junior highs up here. And so that’s where that push comes from. Now your answer was testing. Now, I don’t really think that the testing thing holds water as much because people, it doesn’t resonate with people they were already buying.

If people are spending 8 billion a year and they’re okay, that’s not the best argument. It may be true, there may be more controls in place for a regulated shop, but I don’t think that resonates with the public. I think the better argument would be just tell the truth. Look, this is an equity issue. These stores are giving three, $400,000 a year that’s going to pay for those school lunches. Those books help these kids do these things because these roads, and if everybody’s not doing that, they’re not doing their part. Now, how do you want to live in your town? What’s important in your town? If it’s important, this is what’s got to happen and this is the way we prescribe to do it. I’d rather hear that than I would don’t do that. Or Oh, you get Harry Palms and you go blind. That never worked.

TG Branfalt:

David, I really do appreciate the candor, man, the openness to answer some of these questions. So I do want to switch gears a little bit and talk to you about the products at your dispensary. What’s most popular right now and has that changed since you opened?

Damien Cornwell:

Yeah, I think that right now, so always in the store there’s this really tight battle between edibles and obviously flour. And the other thing I find just generally speaking is that, how do I say this? Items that are not loud, in other words, items that are a little more private seem to really attract a lot of our folks. If I have a breath and spray, the guy’s got a tough day at work and they can just a couple times and it just kind of evens ’em out. I mean, a lot of the guys I know love to hit a little bit of cannabis just to get to the day, the anxiety of life. Oh, for sure. They view like medicine, right? No question. So if you have items where it’s not quite as loud, so if you were in a situation and you didn’t have a really, really strong scent, it’s fine.

The problem is that’s the thing that people attack. If I was smoking in the block or something like that, a person, the order immediately takes attention. And some of the people that might be attacked more conservative immediately have a beef. So I feel like in the beginning, that was not the case. In the beginning, it was so celebrated that it became legal. I saw somebody in our town actually did a protest. It’s run three years in a row, which is like they actually have a get together and they all smoke up in front of the police station.

Literally they shut down the block. Like a thousand people come out and just light up. Because back in the day it was like, yo, if you were smoking in front of something, you got locked up. That was the start of it. They get you on a weekend day and if you got mouthy, next thing you know you’d be in the box until Monday morning. So when that happened, they just freaked out. And then as time went on, it’s not such a big deal. And now you’re finding that nobody wants the pageantry, they just want the product and they want the feeling of feeling even and peaceful.

TG Branfalt:

And have you seen an increase or decrease in let’s say the high dose edible products? I’m 40. I love five milligrams, cup of coffee, five milligram gummy first thing in the morning, good to go. And one of the things that I see quite frequently are these candy bars that are 50 or 30 milligrams and I’m like, man, that’s for the youth at this point. What are you seeing in terms of potency, trends

Damien Cornwell:

Right now? People want even more, even flour that has a good chemistry to it. So it’s a full body thing where the high, if they’re in the flour where it’s just smooth, nobody’s punch drunk as much in terms of our clientele for the most part, punch drunk on the THC percentage. They want something that has that perfect effect that gives them this well-rounded kind of like you can get, I don’t drink, but you could get drunk off rock gut or you can get some really good liquor. So clearly you’re going to want really good liquor. And if you use that parallel, it’s the same thing with cannabis. You want a full body thing that makes you feel nice and that keeps you functional. I think that’s the key too. I think that’s another misnomer. People I think thought that when cannabis was going to be illegal or you’re going to see a town full of zombies, that’s not true. That’s not true at all. That’s not even close to true. You’d be blown away if I told you how many assistant das and people come through that store all day that are probably on go or two while they’re in court right now.

It’s true. I mean, that’s just facts. It’s like it’s just not, the world is changing, man. All the more reasons why I keep saying we need a well-rounded approach. We have to try to do our best, promote the entire industry, just slow down, make sure that everything adds up before you pull the trigger. Who would shoot if you don’t have the guy locked up in your site, lock it down and then pull the trigger? That’s all.

TG Branfalt:

Are you seeing more people talking about terpenes that come into your shop?

Damien Cornwell:

Oh my God, yeah. Especially if you have a seasoned user, which is why I love some of our bud tenders. On my personal level. I love some of our staff is excellent, and so they could speak to it. I got a couple guys that had some checkered past and they’re really good in the store. They’re excellent man. And that’s the other thing. What other thing I love about the cannabis business is people walk in really happy and they leave even happier Just to have a civil conversation about stuff that they love is really a breath of fresh air. It’s really cool thing.

TG Branfalt:

Yeah, I mean, I go into dispensaries quite frequently and one of the first things they ask me is Indicator sativa. And I just sort of look at ’em as somebody who’s

Damien Cornwell:

Antiquated way. We don’t do that over here and

TG Branfalt:

I’m begging. I am begging them the day that I walk into a dispensary and I’m not asked that question, will be the happiest day of my life as a cannabis consumer. Because my answer is I want something that smells like a basement. I know what gets me off. So what’s the most interesting or fascinating thing that you’ve learned about the cannabis industry from the time you open your shop to becoming president of Canny to today?

Damien Cornwell:

Boy, that’s a tough question because there’s so many things. I think that, again, the thing that’s most

Damien Cornwell:

Fascinating is how different it is between the two different markets, like in the unregulated regulated and regulated market and really seeing all the nuances where there is crossover and where there isn’t, and how a regulated market could be successful. And then I find it somewhat exhilarating trying to change that, trying to make it better than how I found it. I mean, that’s why we play the game, right? I mean, I won’t be here forever. I won’t live forever. I’m 53 years old today. I won’t be here forever.

TG Branfalt:

Happy birthday,

Damien Cornwell:

But I have a blast. No, no, not today this day. But I mean at this moment I’m 53. But the cool thing is I get to change it. I get to get the opportunity to be effective, to leave a legacy of right, which motivates me to get up each and every day. And I think that’s dope. I think the kiss of death, nothing would be worse than waking up and not knowing what I want to fight for. And there’s some guys, it just depends on who you’re, but I absolutely love the fight. I’ll fight all day. You kidding me? It doesn’t mean I don’t smile. I have a great time doing it, right? But that’s how it was, right? If you played sports, if you didn’t lose things, that is awesome. Hanging out with your boys and chasing down a goal. Nothing better in the world than going after it.

So there’s always something like that for cannabis. And I find that fascinating, trying to figure out the ways where you can iron out the ripples and then create a pathway for it. Where it’s frustrating is that I can’t stand how much dissension there could be sometimes because you have such good people, such amazing people. And if it could just clean it up and how we interact, how we look at each other, man, there’s nothing we couldn’t get accomplished. That’s the sad part. Sometimes I feel like they’re like turnovers, right? It’s like there’s a turnover just because people can’t get on the same page on the argument or work together or their interests may be get in the way of what’s better for the greater good. So it’s a turnover on downs and you lose the fight, or at least you lose that round, right?

TG Branfalt:

I mean, I can see once again, man, I can really see why you were tab to lead canny. You have a joy about you that I think everyone can feed off of and probably learn from in this industry. Where can people find out more about you, more about Candy, more about just breathe, give us the plugs.

Damien Cornwell:

So I think if you go to Alpha, I think you can go to canny.org and then just go to the website. I think there’s a prompt there. You can click and then the message will coming. You can get in touch with me if you go to Just Breathe life.org can find out all about the store. Also, I did create a foundation called Just Read Tomorrows, which is really cool. We gave a bunch of money to, this is amazing. We gave a bunch of money to a center that deals with addiction for a single for women only. We also gave money to daycares like child daycares. That’s super, super important to me. You’re never going to stop some of the bullshit we go through unless you find a way to get more access and more experiences to young kids, especially if you have a single parent household because then the parents working their butt off and they’re kind of missing it in the cracks for a young person. So we do a lot of stuff with that. We also, I love, I’m wearing a new Harley t-shirt today for you, right? What’s up? So we did a vet ride, couple poker runs last year, donate to the vets, and I got a bunch of guys together for that. And then of course we did obviously a golf tournament and we gave that money back to the Addiction Center.

TG Branfalt:

That’s amazing, man. That’s really incredible

Damien Cornwell:

Plan. I’m trying to do a deal we’re working on, I’m trying to do a deal where we might front the money to buy some property and then get it flipped, and then there are some grants you can get. And the idea is you don’t get to keep it. You get to sell it back into the community for people that are making 60% below the average salary. So I’m trying to work something out. I was going to apply for that and then see if we couldn’t help in that way, that’d be awesome. Think about what that’s going to do to your time, right? If you get those people off rent rolls where they can now invest themselves to makes you town better even out for their kids to be paying in, it’s a good look. It’s a good look.

TG Branfalt:

Well, I mean, definitely keep us posted on that project. And when you have this golf tournament, you can shoot me an email I like. I

Damien Cornwell:

Certainly will.

TG Branfalt:

I like playing bad golf on good days, don’t we? All Bad golf. That is Damien Cornwell. He’s the president of the Cannabis Association of New York, the state’s only cannabis association representing every part of the supply chain and the owner of Binghamton, new York’s just breathe dispensary. Damien, thank you so much for being on the show and I hope that we can chat again in the not so distant future.

Damien Cornwell:

Always. Anytime, man. I had a great time. Thank you so very much for having me.

TG Branfalt:

This episode was engineered by Wayward Sound Studio. I’ve been your host, TG Branfalt.