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Suzanne: I am not a nine-to-five kind of counselor; I live the way I believe. And the way I believe is a life of sobriety and a life of happiness and a life of not getting over trauma, not getting over grief. You won’t. You have to learn to live with the fact that it happened.

Announcer: Welcome to the Well With Cannabis Podcast, a show dedicated to telling the life-changing stories of those who live well with cannabis all while teaching you how to do the same. Meet your host, Emily Kyle, a registered dietitian nutritionist turned certified holistic cannabis practitioner. Emily changed her life for the better with the help of the cannabis plant, and now she’s committed to helping others do the same.

Tune in each week to hear heartwarming stories and gain the knowledge you need to feel connected, inspired, and supported on your own cannabis journey. Whether you’re a new cannabis consumer or a lifetime lover, you’ll benefit from these uplifting tales of real-life journeys that will show you how you, too, can live your best life well with cannabis.

Emily: Hello, Suzanne; I want to thank you so much for doing this with me because when I read your story, I have it printed out right here; I was like, “Oh my gosh.” You really have a story to tell, and it sounds like you’ve had a crazy last three months. Are you doing okay for longer than three months?

Suzanne: I’ve been an addiction counselor for 23 years.

Emily: That is a crazy job, and 23 years is a long time to do that.

Suzanne: It is at first, and then you start learning all these tricks, and you learn about people themselves and just the kind of run-of-the-mill every addict stuff. You want to hit that stuff, but that’s the easiest because it’s almost like you forget it. It’s just like blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Getting to know you. And I always only focus the first session on getting to know the person to be positive and also just ensure that however long they’re in treatment, we’ll work together.

Emily: That’s so nice.

Suzanne: I have a really great way of doing that, and that’s putting a couch in my office, for real. Have essential oils. Essential oils burning. I’ve got four different playlists that I play from. It’s usually like my mood music, kind of the ambient instrumental things like that. I made a punk scar kind of playlist for one guy. He opened up like a lotus flower, it was just beautiful. Just because I was willing to do that and I might have been the first professional that was ever willing to let, I want you to be yourself. I don’t expect anything from you. Just telling them that they feel horrible and they feel resentful and all that stuff. And it’s like, “I can’t take that from you. You need to feel it. But I want you to feel some other things while you’re here,” and they do. It’s so rewarding.

Emily: I was going to say such meaningful work that’s got to really make you feel like you’re actually helping people.

Suzanne: Well, it’s like I can connect with anyone like me just saying I’m nervous. I probably wasn’t even really nervous. Just make sure that I got my head together for this conversation. I am a professional counselor. I got my master’s in 2012 and then, pardon me, I began to have seizures, and in 2015, I became completely disabled.

Emily: How did they come? Was it like one day out of the blue?

Suzanne: Yeah.

Emily: Oh my god.

Suzanne: I take that back seat. I’m going to take a lot of things back. There’s a lot of stuff that is really big that’s happened to me that I’ve just kind of been like, eh. I had brain tumor surgery in 2013. Nothing to me. My dad died on Easter Sunday that year.

Emily: I’m so sorry.

Suzanne: That’s what I remember. That’s what I remember. I don’t remember that I’ve still got a big old, looks like a donkey kicked me on top of the head because the screws and the plates that they put in on the brain, on the skull that they replace, it allows for expansion, for it to vacillate, I guess, with pressure. And anyway, brain surgery wasn’t that big of a deal. I wrecked two cars that year. One of them was a brand new beautiful truck. I ended up with my ’08 Chevy Silverado truck, and it’s got over 300,000 miles on it now.

Emily: Still doing good for you. So, you never used cannabis before the seizures or after?

Suzanne: Oh God. College was a… It is a series of events that I can remember and a whole lot. I can’t.

Emily: I think we can all probably have the same kind of experience with college for sure.

Emily: Oh gosh.

Suzanne: I worked three other jobs in between because that one was so taxing. I mean, I could do it now that I’m back. I mean, and I’ve accepted a lot of things, like my memory limitations, things like that. I know I could do it. And that kind of scares me because once you get on disability, you don’t want to lose disability.

Emily: Right, yes.

Emily: Oh, interesting. How long did you abstain?

Suzanne: 23 to 48.

Emily: That’s crazy. That’s crazy. I mean, because of your profession, right? You couldn’t.

Suzanne: Yes. Right, exactly. But anyway, all these new things have come to light, and just looking back and looking at how I was living my life and how it is now, it’s 180 degrees different than it was.

Emily: Because of the cannabis, or has it just helped?

Suzanne: No, because of it, I say. I had a Weimaraner and her name was Sela. And Sela and I had 13 beautiful years together. I put her down in June and that day is when I started using medical marijuana. I did not have my card, of course, by then but about a week later, I got my card.

Emily: Oh, good.

Suzanne: I’m a very… That’s one thing that I got in my trials and tribulations in working, I do things I’m supposed to do. Whereas, when I was younger, I’d be like, “Eh, I’m not going to get in trouble.” But now it’s legal in Missouri for residents to just have recreational.

Emily: Amazing. Recreational in Missouri? That’s amazing.

Suzanne: I know, I know.

Emily: I think that’s crazy.

Suzanne: We’re in the middle. We get the last of everything, and it’s like, I know. There you go, baby. You can do it.

Emily: That’s a beautiful thing.

Suzanne: Yeah, because there are so many professionals like me that it is what it is, and I am not going to lie to anybody. And my coworkers, my peers, they know I’m not going to lie. People who have been my supervisors in the past, I’m not going to lie to them. So little bit by little bit, it goes up the string. And I think that’s what happened. There are just more people like me who didn’t use and abstained and were miserable for many years. I had two hip replacements.

Emily: Oh gosh.

Suzanne: I’ve had my right knee worked on, my left shoulder worked on. And, of course, the gastrointestinal stuff is just… I had complications. My original surgery was in ’09. I had complications in 2017.

Emily: That’s crazy.

Suzanne: I was in the ICU; I died on the operating table. They had to go back in and operate because somebody had nicked an artery or something, and I almost died. Well, I did, but I came back.

Emily: Yay.

Suzanne: Anyway, so after that, of course, your life is going to change after an experience. I mean, there was a week there I couldn’t drink water or have any intake per mouth. And it’s just like, “This is torture.” And I’m not joking. I just wanted water.

Emily: Right, yes.

Suzanne: But they didn’t know. When I went in for emergency surgery, they popped a hole in my esophagus. That had to heal up enough for me to run around with a drain that would hold. There’s nothing like waking up with an IV in your neck because they wanted access. That’s scary.

Emily: Yeah, the PICC line in there.

Suzanne: I was terrified. Because I’ve never had an IV in my neck before. And I mean-

Emily: Oh, I know.

Suzanne: That’s like our last resort if we need… I mean, it’s my head. I had a port here, so they had access to my abdomen, but they wanted access to my head, which was terrifying. I remember so many things, and I don’t remember out of that stay because I tried. It was so painful that I was on Fentanyl, OxyContin, and Versed. I can’t remember how many other pain relievers I was on.

Emily: Were you nervous about being on all those knowing everything you know in your experiences? Or were you just like, “I need pain relief. I don’t even care.”

Suzanne: Some of both, but more of the pain relief. I don’t care because pain is-

Emily: Right. You can’t live if you’re in pain.

Suzanne: It can be debilitating, and it was. I had all these incisions, and I was bedridden, so I didn’t have any sores. I don’t remember, but I had sore spots.

Emily: Yeah, I mean, oh yeah.

Suzanne: As thin as I’ve gotten without even trying. And don’t hate that. Don’t hate that because it’s as bad as trying to lose weight. It is the exact same fight.

Emily: Given your experience of 23 years working as a counselor, how do you talk to people who maybe are still struggling with addiction or maybe are just struggling with the mindset of how to incorporate cannabis into their life in a way that’s safe and healthy?

Suzanne: I’m going not to be smoking at all. Smoking, smoking. I enjoy my vapes with distillate. I like and distillate best. I don’t have a lot of money. Of course, I’m on disability, so I don’t get to go to the dispensary a lot. But when I do, I have fun. And there’s the cutest 20-something-year-old in my favorite dispensary. I’m still this old, and I’m still boy-crazy.

Emily: That is a great tip for anyone going to the dispensary. Might have a little eye candy to look at when you go.

Emily: Absolutely. Absolutely.

Suzanne: Holy crap. I’m feeling what I’m supposed to do. Oh my God. For so many counselors that don’t give a crap that doesn’t understand, there are way more that do and just want you to be relaxed and comfortable talking to them because you’re here for a reason. Let’s do it.

Emily: I wish everyone could have you as their counselor. You just have that perfect attitude.

Suzanne: I wish that were everybody.

Emily: It’s just got to make whoever comes across your path feel like, “Oh my gosh, I found someone who understands me and treats me like a person”. That’s just so rare.

Suzanne: I don’t give a crap about your rap sheet. And oh God, another thing that’s really hard to get over, which I haven’t found in this many years, haven’t found something smart ass to say back to these counselors. There are counselors that you will work with within a team that has seen this patient three times. Or they’ve had three different counselors. In this facility, I’m thinking, what’s wrong with the facility? But don’t tell me what this person was about five years ago. Don’t tell me what they were like last spring because I’m working with them now, and I’m very capable of making my own decisions professionally. And don’t tell me how to do it. I’ll fight them on that.

Emily: See, that’s what makes you amazing, is not everybody’s willing to do that.

Suzanne: But what I’ve found for myself and for my closest friends is I have friends on Facebook. That guy messaged me this morning. We became unfriended somehow. He was hacked, and I wondered where he went, but it was like, I didn’t realize it until he showed up. And then it was like, my cowboy’s back. He says yesterday, “Today, I have 11 years, six months, and one day.” I was just like, I mean, I’ve got goosebumps now. I was just like, “Praise the Lord.” And I don’t care who you pray to. You decide. You don’t even have to tell me. But I will, maybe not on the first go around, but you’re trying to make them want to come back to see you. And if you want to give them candy to do that, give them candy. Load them up, man. Do you want a monster coffee?

Emily: There you go.

Suzanne: I know your dietary needs. You can have a monster coffee. You have one of mine. But just treating them kind of special, letting them know that they matter. Letting them know that nobody’s forgotten about them. You’ve got every single person on staff’s attention here. Everybody knows about you. And that kind of feeds into paranoia. I’ve dealt with that before. Why is groundskeeping know why I can’t eat a normal, that I have to have a separate tray? If they’re on gluten or whatever, or low, low salt or whatever. And I’m like, “Well, you step in here, and we try to take care of your needs so you don’t have to worry about them.”

Emily: So nice.

Suzanne: And that’s one of your needs that you said the word when I did your intake. And you don’t have to worry about it for the next however many days your insurance will bless you with. And, of course, the longest cent is the best.

Emily: Yes, definitely.

Suzanne: Insurance companies don’t want to pay. But they, it’s called a utilization review. And I, for some reason, learned from the best. I got lucky. And I can get a utilization request approved the first time I write it.

Emily: Nice.

Emily: Right, right.

Suzanne: But I so am. And I just have to convince them of it.

Emily: Definitely.

Suzanne: Just have to do it.

Emily: I think that one of the hardest parts for so many of us is coming out of the cannabis closet, and when is an appropriate time? When is it okay to talk about it? When is it not okay to talk about it? And I think I connect with that because I feel like we all experience that on different levels.

Suzanne: And we want other people to feel comfortable that you do.

Emily: And that’s… Oh gosh, I know that exactly. I know exactly how that feels.

Suzanne: In fact, I wonder if there’s some kind of, I mean, I know I could become an addictionologist at a doctoral level, but is that workable for me to do? I know; I can tell you right now I made a B. I graduated with honors with my master’s, but I made a B in research because it just doesn’t make sense to me. But you get me numbers I’m interested in that make sense, and I have somebody to explain them to them. You don’t have anybody explaining. That instructor was such a sweetheart. She looked like she was about 25, a new instructor, and loved us. So I think she gave us, she didn’t want to see us fail. And thank God for her. I mean, I met a lot of wonderful clinicians and professors, and I still am along the way.

Emily: I don’t know if you can connect with this with me on this level, but it’s hard to be like a professional in the industry because I feel, and maybe this is my own perception, but I feel like a lot of other professionals in my field judge me because of the cannabis.

Suzanne: Right. So you just advocate for yourself just like you would anybody else. Just as hard.

Emily: I mean people like you, people like me who are in the field who come out and say, “This is okay, and we are okay, and it will be okay.” I think that’s what it takes to move the needle forward and change the face of cannabis. Because so many professionals are so afraid to be honest and to show the truth, they’re afraid of what will happen to their careers or how people will perceive them. I just am really thankful that you had this conversation with me because I feel like so many people will listen and be like, “Oh my gosh, she is just like me, normal, and lives a normal healthy life with cannabis.”

Suzanne: Oh, I’m not normal.

Emily: But you’re better than you were.

Suzanne: I function really well. I am not normal. And there’s no such thing while I’m plugging my… While I’m saying some of the things that I always say. What was I going to say? If you have an addiction, you’ll always have that addiction. It is. So you’re going to have to be really mindful and self-aware. And if you don’t have that and you don’t know how to wrap your head around how to get there, there are programs; there are eight-week programs. I know in Columbia, Missouri, where MU is, there’s an eight-week class. It’s at a Unity church. So the very non-denominational, very welcoming, very, very loving community that lets some professionals do, people that wouldn’t have offices, they let them do workshops or whatever with people every Tuesday night from seven to nine or whatever.

Emily: That’s perfect.

Suzanne: And I’m a very lax teacher. “I got to go to the bathroom. Anybody else I got to go to the bathroom with us? Take a break. I’m giving you a whole 15 minutes. You better be back.”

Emily: I feel like that’s why people connect with you, though. You’re so real. It’s easy to connect with you right away, and I can see why your patients would feel like, “Oh my gosh, she’s a normal person.” I just connect with her. I feel normal. I feel safe.

Suzanne: Good. I’m glad I come off that way because that’s how I intend to be. That’s how I intend to be.

Emily: That’s amazing. Now I want to be respectful of your time. We’re going to wrap this up. I’m going to ask every interviewee the same four questions. So bear with me. And the first one is, of all the things you’ve done in your life, what are you most proud of today?

Emily: Oh, that’s such a sweet story. And thank you for sharing.

Suzanne: I did cry. I’m sorry.

Emily: I mean, it’s emotional, though, and I’m so sorry you lost your dad, and just honoring him.

Suzanne: But I talk to him every day. You don’t understand. Well, we won’t get into that in this talk, but he’s here.

Emily: I’m so happy.

Suzanne: My grandmother. I smelled his cologne so heavy the other night. Nobody wears that cologne.

Emily: Oh my god.

Suzanne: It was so strong. And it’s like, I get it. I get it. What do you want? I don’t know. But things like that, just… And I think before; it’s because I’m more self-aware that I’m more aware of the things around me.

Emily: Yeah, spiritually as well. Definitely. So moving forward, what do you think what your life would look like if you hadn’t found cannabis? Where would you be today?

Suzanne: I’d be in pain, possibly overdosing on Oxycontin again. Not on purpose. Not on purpose at all.

Emily: Does cannabis effectively manage your pain to where you don’t need anything else?

Suzanne: I am still on Oxycontin, but…

Emily: Which is fine.

Suzanne: Because I have pains that marijuana couldn’t touch.

Emily: Yes, and I’m so glad you were brave enough to say that because I want anybody who listens to this podcast to know that cannabis doesn’t have to be the only answer. There can be multiple layers to an answer, and one’s not better than the other.

Suzanne: If it’s your only answer, God bless you.

Emily: Yes. Yes. That is a great way to-

Suzanne: I mean, I take pills for my stomach. I don’t produce enzymes, so I don’t digest my food. I have to take these big horse pills for that. And I mean, just, it’s not fun, but I have it, and it makes me happy, and I can relax.

Emily: See, yes, that’s-

Suzanne: Totally relax and not be stupid. Just I’m relaxed.

Emily: I’m so glad you have that. And to give you just that little piece of calmness and relaxation really, I feel like can make such a difference for people too.

Suzanne: Yeah, yeah. I hope.

Emily: Last question we’re going to wrap up with, if you could be remembered for one thing in this world, what do you hope it to be?

Suzanne: As a helper.

Emily: I feel it. I feel it. You’ve helped.

Suzanne: As a healer. As a healer, as a helper.

Emily: And I feel like in the future, I don’t know, I have these vibes for you. I can see you in your garage; I can see chairs around. I can see you helping people in a way that maybe people haven’t explored yet. And I think that’s really exciting for you.

Suzanne: Thank you. Thank you. It is…

Emily: I know it coming for you in the future. Who knows what the future will hold? But I see you helping people through this path. I mean, you have such specialized training and knowledge to be able to help people who are struggling. But also, you have that personal connection with cannabis, which is so unique and different, and I think it will really help a lot of people in the future.

Suzanne: I really do hope so.

Emily: Thank you so much for your time. I really enjoyed getting to sit with you today.

Disclaimer: Hi there. Before we jump into today’s episode, I wanted to share a note on potentially sensitive content. The episodes on the Well With Cannabis Podcast are created for adult audiences only. We will, at times, cover sensitive topics, including but not limited to suicide, abuse, mental illness, sex, drugs, alcohol, psychedelics, and the obvious use of plant medicine. Explicit language may be used occasionally. Please refrain from watching or listening to the show if you’re likely to be offended or adversely impacted by any of these topics.

The information on this show is for informational and educational purposes only. It does not constitute medical advice. If any of the content on this podcast has brought up anything for you, please reach out or speak to a professional or someone you trust.

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